carlos b fly wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:
You're trying to widen the issue to the widest possible extreme in the most predictable of ways. Hitler. The Nazi Party. I'm on 0, you've hit it to 10. I was making a general statement on the policy of judging the voters - that I don't find it appropriate to pass heavy handed judgement on American voters, voting for their America leader, in their own internal democratic election. Do I think Trump is a better candidate than Hilary? No.
But if I met an American who was voting for Trump, I would not harshly judge them because I have no grasp of what life is really like for the average American or a persons specific quality of life. You think flipping on the BBC for ten minutes after work can give you a taste of what those people go through? If they haven't got enough police on the street and are living in fear of gun crime or rape? If their children are having terrible state education that dooms their future? Too many times in history other countries have shoved their views and agendas into the internal affairs of other countries with zero restrain and nuance and its led to disaster, with repurcusions that last for decades. I do feel its something we should learn from. A little bit of tact would go a long way.
I do feel Hilary would be a stronger president. Trump is utterly reckless, amateur and his policies are ridiculous comical soundbites. But I would never judge an American voter whatever their vote and it is just not my place to enforce what I think the good people of America should vote for.
You might think it's wrong for me to think someone is insane for voting Trump. But they are insane. They've been driven insane by their circumstances and then some sociopath comes down and promises to make everything better if they follow their agenda, promising the world to them and they buy it because their desperation has drove them to it. It's the very definition of insanity and I will call that out.
No, I don't think its insane you think that. I wouldn't vote for Trump. I just wouldn't take my ass onto social media or into someone's face who is American and try to tell them how to vote. I don't think that's my place. Someone from America could easily turn around and say "Well, middle class white boy from the South East of England, living it up in London half a world away - what do you know about my circumstances? Or what my current government has done for me?"
Rather sheepishly, I'd have to admit they are right. I don't. And you don't.
Going back to Hilary, I've seen people on Twitter (from the UK) saying how could anyone vote for her? She's a total snake who will cover her own ass and her terrible dark history with Bill and his antics (their words and views, not mine). But then I think, people may forget that stuff because the reforms she is offering to make would appeal to certain voters and their situations. So they will vote for her. You are correct, much of this is from desperation - in the case of Trump, they may vote for his vile, chaotic policies because they believe his policies may directly uplift them. Same for Hilary, people may be able to look past her sinister antics backstage because her policies may uplift them and they are desperate for that too.
Sure, no one can tell you how to vote, but I don't think there is any harm in getting involved in the dialogue. Don't get me wrong I don't hunt out Trump supporters online to start arguments, (the ultimate futile exercise with Trump voters especially, who have proven that NOTHING will change their mind). However if someone is on their soapbox and they are spouting bile in the name of Trump in an open forum then fair game, I'm not going to stay quiet because I don't live there.
Hillary is a tough one, her career in politics is so extensive and public that the political flip flopping over the years and bad choices are easy to find. It's not hard to find blemishes on her record. Not saying that excuses it, but over someone who has been under the radar, or in this case, no background in politics at all it's easy to find receipts against her. I think at best she will be a "safe" president, who won't do anything for progress. But hopefully won't set things way back (unlike a Trump administration). It's sad that that's the best we can hope for in a president but at this point, I'll take that over the alternative.