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Oct 5 16 11:57 AM

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I'm curious to hear what some of you think about the election this year-- especially from you guys who live abroad. I assume you are all mortified that Trump is even a candidate, yes?

Pretty much everyone I know is voting for Hillary (including myself, of course), but then I hear about a random person here and there who is voting for Trump and seemingly nothing will change their minds. It honestly taints my view of them-- I don't see how anyone could support such a fool to represent our country.
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carlos b fly

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Oct 5 16 1:48 PM

jamiclever wrote:


I'm curious to hear what some of you think about the election this year-- especially from you guys who live abroad. I assume you are all mortified that Trump is even a candidate, yes?





I generally try to never judge another countries politics. Globalisation and sticking your nose into political affairs between people and their elected governments is distasteful to me. I am just surprised he's only got this far only because he's so bloody amateur. There isn't any finesse or focus at all from him and it honestly just looks like its all one big joke and winging every moment.

Its one thing to say you don't agree with someone's political agenda but its another to see it demonstrated all so unpolished.

For those who live in America, do you really think he'll win?


    
  

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Automatic Prince

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Oct 5 16 3:58 PM

I live in Virginia and it honestly disgusts me to keep hearing more and more people around me are voting for him.

And Hillary; "I don't know her, but she seems cool" smiley: laugh

She gets my vote just because I want to do my part in hopes of preventing him from inching ahead and winning. It's such a scary, preposterous thought.

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Oct 5 16 4:22 PM

The polls show Hillary winning, and I'd like to think that she's got it in the bag, but you never know. The problem is that people don't like Hillary-- I personally think she's fine and would make a good president, but her personality (or lack thereof) puts people off. What aggravates me beyond belief is when Trump supporters bring up her email scandal as a reason for not trusting her, yet they have nothing to say about the endless list of scandals that Trump has been involved in.

Not to mention that as the campaign progresses, Trump is getting scarier and scarier-- nastier, angrier, unhinged, slinging insults left and right-- he's drunk with power. He's making speeches telling people that the "liberal media" is full of lies and trying to skew perception, when the truth is that now several republican publications have come out in support of Hillary. Trump is just that much of a disaster, and yet some people can't see it. I just don't know how anyone can defend him, let alone vote for him- it's beyond my comprehension

He's also calling for trickle-down economics, which would sink our economy further into despair.

Mike Pence did a good job of masking his true nature at last night's debate, but I don't understand how anyone is 2016 can be pro-life and against marriage equality. Those "Christian" views (as he put them) are simply archaic and hateful-- there's no other way around it.

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carlos b fly

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Oct 5 16 5:42 PM

jamiclever wrote:
The problem is that people don't like Hillary-- I personally think she's fine and would make a good president, but her personality (or lack thereof) puts people off.


That's interesting, I wasn't aware of that. I actually think people are fed up of showboat leaders that are acting like mini celebrities. The days of wanting more "get the job done", less flashy, less media savvy leaders is something I think people want again. Yes, its less exciting but I think it might actually make people a little more assured. If you're dry as +$!! but committed to understanding the people and their needs, then so be it.

Now I think about it, maybe Hilary isn't the most dynamic personality but I think as a result she'd simply get her ass down more and crack on with things America needs.  
  

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Oct 5 16 5:59 PM

carlos b fly wrote:
jamiclever wrote:


I'm curious to hear what some of you think about the election this year-- especially from you guys who live abroad. I assume you are all mortified that Trump is even a candidate, yes?





I generally try to never judge another countries politics. Globalisation and sticking your nose into political affairs between people and their elected governments is distasteful to me.


I don't agree, that's to imply that whoever is elected POTUS doesn't effect us across the pond, when it very much does. I don't understand how someone couldn't be on the edge of their seats as this car crash unfolds, because it will have a huge impact on all of us.



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Oct 5 16 6:01 PM

I wrote this back in August... "If you're voting for Donald Trump, then no we can't be friends":

http://est1997.com/now/if-youre-voting-for-donald-trump-then-no-we-cant-be-friends/

It is utterly frightening. I don't know what I'd do if he wins but I am being hopeful that Hillary stays in the lead and wins. People love to dog her when she's a contender but she's always been very popular once in office. They hated her running for Senate, hated her when Obama nominated her for Secretary of State, but was praised while in the job... until the whole Bengazi and email thing.


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Kevon

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Oct 5 16 6:06 PM

I think the problem against Hillary is that she might be leading in the polls but like others are saying, there's a lack of people who are passionate about her. And if people aren't passionate about their choice of candidate then it seriously hinders their motiviation for getting their arse out and voting. Depending on what % of people that could affect, it could be enough to sway in Trump's favour.



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carlos b fly

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Oct 5 16 6:51 PM

Kevon wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:
jamiclever wrote:


I'm curious to hear what some of you think about the election this year-- especially from you guys who live abroad. I assume you are all mortified that Trump is even a candidate, yes?





I generally try to never judge another countries politics. Globalisation and sticking your nose into political affairs between people and their elected governments is distasteful to me.


I don't agree, that's to imply that whoever is elected POTUS doesn't effect us across the pond, when it very much does. I don't understand how someone couldn't be on the edge of their seats as this car crash unfolds, because it will have a huge impact on all of us.


I don't live in America and don't know the conditions of the people in that country across a massive social spectrum. Its very easy from across the pond, with a completely different way of life, cultural issues and public service situation, to pass judgement on what impacts people and what drives their votes in reaction to this. For example, I think Obama seems like a lovely guy and has done a good job as president but several of my American friends utterly disagreed when I voiced this two years ago.

I don't live in America and neither do you, so his decisions and policies do not impact my absolute everyday way of life living in that country. 

I would not presume to tell Betty in Alabama if her vote is right or wrong as I have no clue how her life how been affected, pro or con, by her government.

I therefore have to be a realist and say, only an American can really know what its like to live under the policies of their American elected party and what it does to every facet of their day to day existence and quality of life. There is a difference between a countries domestic policies and international ones. Domestically, I say butt the %+** out and let the people have their vote and vote their leader as they will be the most affected by it.  

I have a view of their election but keep it very respectful.

I'm not in those peoples shoes and I don't live their life or know anything of their struggles, so I feel I shouldn't dictate on their vote that could change it.


  

Last Edited By: carlos b fly Oct 5 16 7:06 PM. Edited 4 times.

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Oct 5 16 10:00 PM

^True, but in all fairness, people in America also don't agree on whether Obama (or anyone) has done a good job, either. I know I disagree with people all the time. I think that the POTUS will affect you, and you have a right to an opinion on that. It certainly does not have to agree with all people you speak to; it never will.

That said. Trump is obviously quite frightening. On a personal note, I have never been so disinterested in either candidate. On another year, Hillary looks as bad as voting for McCain or Bush. But at this point, I have no other option than to vote for her. I think my state is going Trump, anyway. smiley: sick

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Oct 5 16 11:22 PM

jamiclever wrote:
The polls show Hillary winning, and I'd like to think that she's got it in the bag, but you never know. The problem is that people don't like Hillary-- I personally think she's fine and would make a good president, but her personality (or lack thereof) puts people off. What aggravates me beyond belief is when Trump supporters bring up her email scandal as a reason for not trusting her, yet they have nothing to say about the endless list of scandals that Trump has been involved in.
I'm not a Trump supporter; hate him. But, there are plenty of people (like me) that strongly dislike Hillary, too, for very valid reasons. The e-mail scandal is a big deal. Benghazi. Whitewater. Her participation in Bill's horrible, horrible history of sexual assault, harassment, and rape. Those are a few of the reasons a lot of people want nothing to do with her. Unfortunately, we have Trump, who is worse for reasons we don't need to mention again.

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Oct 6 16 12:14 AM

I don't know a single person who is here for Trump. I'm in Cali (LA to be specific), which is pretty liberal/democratic. Everyone I know can be broken into 2 groups:

1. Supporting Hillary.
2. Don't care for Hillary, but will vote for her just to keep Trump from winning.

Trump getting as far as he has is just embarrassing. This whole election has felt like a circus. I like KittyKow's idea of begging for an FOMMer to take him in if Trump wins. Who wants to take me in? Mario - you got room? I've been dying to go to Italy and your beautiful Instagram photos make me so jealous. smiley: laugh

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Kevon

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Oct 6 16 4:15 AM

carlos b fly wrote:
Kevon wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:



I generally try to never judge another countries politics. Globalisation and sticking your nose into political affairs between people and their elected governments is distasteful to me.


I don't agree, that's to imply that whoever is elected POTUS doesn't effect us across the pond, when it very much does. I don't understand how someone couldn't be on the edge of their seats as this car crash unfolds, because it will have a huge impact on all of us.


I don't live in America and don't know the conditions of the people in that country across a massive social spectrum. Its very easy from across the pond, with a completely different way of life, cultural issues and public service situation, to pass judgement on what impacts people and what drives their votes in reaction to this. For example, I think Obama seems like a lovely guy and has done a good job as president but several of my American friends utterly disagreed when I voiced this two years ago.

I don't live in America and neither do you, so his decisions and policies do not impact my absolute everyday way of life living in that country. 

I would not presume to tell Betty in Alabama if her vote is right or wrong as I have no clue how her life how been affected, pro or con, by her government.

I therefore have to be a realist and say, only an American can really know what its like to live under the policies of their American elected party and what it does to every facet of their day to day existence and quality of life. There is a difference between a countries domestic policies and international ones. Domestically, I say butt the %+** out and let the people have their vote and vote their leader as they will be the most affected by it.  

I have a view of their election but keep it very respectful.

I'm not in those peoples shoes and I don't live their life or know anything of their struggles, so I feel I shouldn't dictate on their vote that could change it.


  

At what point do you think people's behavior and beliefs no longer warrant respect? If we were sitting watching Hitler rise to power by manipulating the masses, drumming up hate and playing on their fear (seems like an extreme example, but take out the word "Hitler" and replace it with "Trump" and the sentence still works), are we to just sit and go "not my political system/problem, so I'll respectfully keep quiet"? At what point do we have an opinion? We can already see Trump's rhetoric has had some awful effects, hate crime has gone through the roof. Or do we just ignore that and sit back until we have a Bush/Blair type type situation where we're their right hand man being dragged into a pointless war? Come on.

Yes we don't see things from Betty's point of view, because we aren't being manipulated by the media the same way she is. What I CAN see is a politician, sorry, reality TV star, playing on her struggles and her desperation to further their agenda, causing turmoil and conflict and amplifying a fractured nation in the process. If anything as an outsider looking in I can see more clearly what is going on here, and frankly it's f*cking terrifying.



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Oct 6 16 5:07 AM

I think it's really important to have an interest and opinion on what's going on in the US. We're all such a globalised and interdependent world now that we take for granted the effects that decisions made by other countries and economies can often have on us. Ireland, where I'm from, is hugely dependant on US multinationals such as Facebook, Google, Yahoo, Apple for generating employment. If the US tax system/policy changed, those companies could up and leave in no time. On the flip side of that, the global recession was triggered by the collapse of those US banks back in 2008, which had disasterous effects on people's lives all over the world. Jobs were lost, people couldn't pay mortgages, life savings and pensions were all wiped out in minutes. And these are just economic reasons for why we should take an interest in what's going on there.

There are a whole variety of social and safety reasons for why it is vital that there is stable political leadership in the US. It's very narrow minded to only be concerned with what's going on in ones own country.

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carlos b fly

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Oct 6 16 5:51 AM

Kevon wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:
Kevon wrote:

I don't agree, that's to imply that whoever is elected POTUS doesn't effect us across the pond, when it very much does. I don't understand how someone couldn't be on the edge of their seats as this car crash unfolds, because it will have a huge impact on all of us.


I don't live in America and don't know the conditions of the people in that country across a massive social spectrum. Its very easy from across the pond, with a completely different way of life, cultural issues and public service situation, to pass judgement on what impacts people and what drives their votes in reaction to this. For example, I think Obama seems like a lovely guy and has done a good job as president but several of my American friends utterly disagreed when I voiced this two years ago.

I don't live in America and neither do you, so his decisions and policies do not impact my absolute everyday way of life living in that country. 

I would not presume to tell Betty in Alabama if her vote is right or wrong as I have no clue how her life how been affected, pro or con, by her government.

I therefore have to be a realist and say, only an American can really know what its like to live under the policies of their American elected party and what it does to every facet of their day to day existence and quality of life. There is a difference between a countries domestic policies and international ones. Domestically, I say butt the %+** out and let the people have their vote and vote their leader as they will be the most affected by it.  

I have a view of their election but keep it very respectful.

I'm not in those peoples shoes and I don't live their life or know anything of their struggles, so I feel I shouldn't dictate on their vote that could change it.


  

At what point do you think people's behavior and beliefs no longer warrant respect? If we were sitting watching Hitler rise to power by manipulating the masses, drumming up hate and playing on their fear (seems like an extreme example, but take out the word "Hitler" and replace it with "Trump" and the sentence still works), are we to just sit and go "not my political system/problem, so I'll respectfully keep quiet"? At what point do we have an opinion? We can already see Trump's rhetoric has had some awful effects, hate crime has gone through the roof. Or do we just ignore that and sit back until we have a Bush/Blair type type situation where we're their right hand man being dragged into a pointless war? Come on.

Yes we don't see things from Betty's point of view, because we aren't being manipulated by the media the same way she is. What I CAN see is a politician, sorry, reality TV star, playing on her struggles and her desperation to further their agenda, causing turmoil and conflict and amplifying a fractured nation in the process. If anything as an outsider looking in I can see more clearly what is going on here, and frankly it's f*cking terrifying.


You're trying to widen the issue to the widest possible extreme in the most predictable of ways. Hitler. The Nazi Party. I'm on 0, you've hit it to 10. I was making a general statement on the policy of judging the voters - that I don't find it appropriate to pass heavy handed judgement on American voters, voting for their America leader, in their own internal democratic election. Do I think Trump is a better candidate than Hilary? No.

But if I met an American who was voting for Trump, I would try to not harshly judge them because I have no grasp of what life is really like for the average American or a persons specific quality of life. You think flipping on the BBC for ten minutes after work can give you a taste of what those people go through? If they haven't got enough police on the street and are living in fear of gun crime or rape? If their children are having terrible state education that dooms their future? Too many times in history other countries have shoved their views and agendas into the internal affairs of other countries with zero restrain and nuance and its led to disaster, with repurcusions that last for decades. I do feel its something we should learn from. A little bit of tact would go a long way.

I do feel Hilary would be a stronger president. Trump is utterly reckless, amateur, a showboater and his policies are ridiculous comical soundbites. But I would never judge an American voter whatever their vote and it is just not my place to enforce upon what I think the good people of America should vote for. So therefore, I am very careful about how much I wade in on these topics.


   

  

Last Edited By: carlos b fly Oct 6 16 6:44 AM. Edited 3 times.

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carlos b fly

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Oct 6 16 5:57 AM

charmbracelet87 wrote:
 I think that the POTUS will affect you, and you have a right to an opinion on that.


As I said, I do have an opinion on it.

I just try very carefully to not have an opinion on the Americans voting. I've seen people on Twitter from the UK making horrible remarks about Hilary voters for example and I just find it distasteful. If you feel Hilary is rotten and fake (or whatever), then okay but going after people voting for her when you're half a world away, living a different life, seems out of order to me.
  

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Kevon

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Oct 6 16 6:55 AM

carlos b fly wrote:
Kevon wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:


I don't live in America and don't know the conditions of the people in that country across a massive social spectrum. Its very easy from across the pond, with a completely different way of life, cultural issues and public service situation, to pass judgement on what impacts people and what drives their votes in reaction to this. For example, I think Obama seems like a lovely guy and has done a good job as president but several of my American friends utterly disagreed when I voiced this two years ago.

I don't live in America and neither do you, so his decisions and policies do not impact my absolute everyday way of life living in that country. 

I would not presume to tell Betty in Alabama if her vote is right or wrong as I have no clue how her life how been affected, pro or con, by her government.

I therefore have to be a realist and say, only an American can really know what its like to live under the policies of their American elected party and what it does to every facet of their day to day existence and quality of life. There is a difference between a countries domestic policies and international ones. Domestically, I say butt the %+** out and let the people have their vote and vote their leader as they will be the most affected by it.  

I have a view of their election but keep it very respectful.

I'm not in those peoples shoes and I don't live their life or know anything of their struggles, so I feel I shouldn't dictate on their vote that could change it.


  

At what point do you think people's behavior and beliefs no longer warrant respect? If we were sitting watching Hitler rise to power by manipulating the masses, drumming up hate and playing on their fear (seems like an extreme example, but take out the word "Hitler" and replace it with "Trump" and the sentence still works), are we to just sit and go "not my political system/problem, so I'll respectfully keep quiet"? At what point do we have an opinion? We can already see Trump's rhetoric has had some awful effects, hate crime has gone through the roof. Or do we just ignore that and sit back until we have a Bush/Blair type type situation where we're their right hand man being dragged into a pointless war? Come on.

Yes we don't see things from Betty's point of view, because we aren't being manipulated by the media the same way she is. What I CAN see is a politician, sorry, reality TV star, playing on her struggles and her desperation to further their agenda, causing turmoil and conflict and amplifying a fractured nation in the process. If anything as an outsider looking in I can see more clearly what is going on here, and frankly it's f*cking terrifying.


You're trying to widen the issue to the widest possible extreme in the most predictable of ways. Hitler. The Nazi Party. I'm on 0, you've hit it to 10. I was making a general statement on the policy of judging the voters - that I don't find it appropriate to pass heavy handed judgement on American voters, voting for their America leader, in their own internal democratic election. Do I think Trump is a better candidate than Hilary? No.

But if I met an American who was voting for Trump, I would not harshly judge them because I have no grasp of what life is really like for the average American or a persons specific quality of life. You think flipping on the BBC for ten minutes after work can give you a taste of what those people go through? If they haven't got enough police on the street and are living in fear of gun crime or rape? If their children are having terrible state education that dooms their future? Too many times in history other countries have shoved their views and agendas into the internal affairs of other countries with zero restrain and nuance and its led to disaster, with repurcusions that last for decades. I do feel its something we should learn from. A little bit of tact would go a long way.

I do feel Hilary would be a stronger president. Trump is utterly reckless, amateur and his policies are ridiculous comical soundbites. But I would never judge an American voter whatever their vote and it is just not my place to enforce what I think the good people of America should vote for.


   

  


I already pointed out that my example was extreme, but the situation in the US is far from a "1" out of 10 right now.   

The funny thing is we are looking at the same side of the coin here but seeing something different. I don't deny those situations exist, I don't deny those people genuinely feel a sense of despondency, frustration, desperation and resentment due to the awful things that are going on around them. But what I am bothered by is it is those exact feelings that are being manipulated and capitalised on by the like so Trump and his ilk. And  as much as you might think it is overreacting, that is exactly what has happened countless times in history. This is how it starts. That's why I won't be passive in my opinions about it. I don't think we have to wait for it to be an 8 before we do.

You might think it's wrong for me to think someone is insane for voting Trump. But they are insane. They've been driven insane by their circumstances and then some sociopath comes down and promises to make everything better if they follow their agenda, promising the world to them and they buy it because their desperation has drove them to it. It's the very definition of insanity and I will call that out.



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Last Edited By: Kevon Oct 6 16 6:58 AM. Edited 1 time.

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carlos b fly

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Oct 6 16 8:23 AM

Kevon wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:
Kevon wrote:
At what point do you think people's behavior and beliefs no longer warrant respect? If we were sitting watching Hitler rise to power by manipulating the masses, drumming up hate and playing on their fear (seems like an extreme example, but take out the word "Hitler" and replace it with "Trump" and the sentence still works), are we to just sit and go "not my political system/problem, so I'll respectfully keep quiet"? At what point do we have an opinion? We can already see Trump's rhetoric has had some awful effects, hate crime has gone through the roof. Or do we just ignore that and sit back until we have a Bush/Blair type type situation where we're their right hand man being dragged into a pointless war? Come on.

Yes we don't see things from Betty's point of view, because we aren't being manipulated by the media the same way she is. What I CAN see is a politician, sorry, reality TV star, playing on her struggles and her desperation to further their agenda, causing turmoil and conflict and amplifying a fractured nation in the process. If anything as an outsider looking in I can see more clearly what is going on here, and frankly it's f*cking terrifying.


You're trying to widen the issue to the widest possible extreme in the most predictable of ways. Hitler. The Nazi Party. I'm on 0, you've hit it to 10. I was making a general statement on the policy of judging the voters - that I don't find it appropriate to pass heavy handed judgement on American voters, voting for their America leader, in their own internal democratic election. Do I think Trump is a better candidate than Hilary? No.

But if I met an American who was voting for Trump, I would not harshly judge them because I have no grasp of what life is really like for the average American or a persons specific quality of life. You think flipping on the BBC for ten minutes after work can give you a taste of what those people go through? If they haven't got enough police on the street and are living in fear of gun crime or rape? If their children are having terrible state education that dooms their future? Too many times in history other countries have shoved their views and agendas into the internal affairs of other countries with zero restrain and nuance and its led to disaster, with repurcusions that last for decades. I do feel its something we should learn from. A little bit of tact would go a long way.

I do feel Hilary would be a stronger president. Trump is utterly reckless, amateur and his policies are ridiculous comical soundbites. But I would never judge an American voter whatever their vote and it is just not my place to enforce what I think the good people of America should vote for.


   

  




You might think it's wrong for me to think someone is insane for voting Trump. But they are insane. They've been driven insane by their circumstances and then some sociopath comes down and promises to make everything better if they follow their agenda, promising the world to them and they buy it because their desperation has drove them to it. It's the very definition of insanity and I will call that out.


No, I don't think its insane you think that. I wouldn't vote for Trump. I just wouldn't take my ass onto social media or into someone's face who is American and try to tell them how to vote. I don't think that's my place. Someone from America could easily turn around and say "Well, middle class white boy from the South East of England, living it up in London half a world away - what do you know about my circumstances? Or what my current government has done for me?"

Rather sheepishly, I'd have to admit they are right. I don't. And you don't.

Going back to Hilary, I've seen people on Twitter (from the UK) saying how could anyone vote for her? She's a total snake who will cover her own ass and her terrible dark history with Bill and his antics (their words and views, not mine). But then I think, people may forget that stuff because the reforms she is offering to make would appeal to certain voters and their situations. So they will vote for her. You are correct, much of this is from desperation - in the case of Trump, they may vote for his vile, chaotic policies because they believe his policies may directly uplift them. Same for Hilary, people may be able to look past her sinister antics backstage because her policies may uplift them and they are desperate for that too.    
  

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#20 [url]

Oct 6 16 9:15 AM

I'm in California In a red area and it's scary to see trump supporters. It makes me uncomfortable and unsafe. He's preaching to a group that has underlying hate for others and feeding it through a disguise of his talk of wanting to give the governemnt back to the people. If this was his true agenda, and was preaching to a different party I'd get it... However I'm not holding my breathe for someone that doesn't pay taxes due to working the system and how the system benefits him (the rich) so well, he's not going to change that anytime soon... However he's preaching to the followers of the Republican Party that don't understand how the party works. The groups they are feeding into are all the conservatives that want things the old way, white men or religion in power suppressing everyone else. Polls on local tv, show how they trust trump over Hilary, and little white old men walking around with their "make America great again" hats and people flying their conservative flags along with their trump flags is scary. All the hate he preaches is giving freedom to these individuals to continue their hate and the suppression of minorities, Going back to the good old Puritan way. It baffles me that they don't care that he's far from their views( being rich corrupt business man, married 3 times, etc...) but since he's selling what they want, they're buying it. Its funny to see those running the Republican Party flip back and forth in support of him, until his next misstep. Seeing all this really makes me feel uneasy until Election Day. I have faith that we the people will make the right choice! I liked Bernie but his dreams were too big... I feel like we've accomplished so much as a country these past feel years, equality in marriage, immigrant students allowed to come out of the shadows, etc... And Hilary will continue to lead us into that direction. To Trump it is all a game, but he's hitting the nerves of those that don't want to change for the better and feeding to their agenda... And again it's sad and scary to watch.... I hope my post makes sense... Posting from my phone while getting ready for work lol

Last Edited By: tl2mc Oct 6 16 9:48 AM. Edited 1 time.

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