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Stamos

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Jun 13 16 3:44 PM

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A discussion thread dedicated to a sad and tragic event that almost cost the life of a very good friend of mine.
 




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Vincent

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#1 [url]

Jun 13 16 3:55 PM

Very tragic and sad indeed. It really hit home for me and I am sure most of us here especially. So glad to hear your friend is okay. I have actually been to that club and that just makes it extra scary to me, plus I was out in NYC at a gay bar at the same time it happened... can't help but think it could very well happen here.

We definitely need some change.


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Kevon

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#3 [url]

Jun 13 16 4:05 PM

The fact that some nutjob was caught across the country with explosives and firearms with intent to do similar at a pride parade is equally worrying. It's still utterly baffling to me that guns haven't been banned in the most powerful country in the world. This kind of thing is virtually non-existent elsewhere in the world. America needs to wake up. Bigotry will always exist, however, to legally enable one person to do this level of damage is just ridiculous.

I also am disgusted that so many media outlets are going down the "Islamaphobe" route instead of addressing the homophobia behind it. Just another excuse to incite racial hatred.

2016 has been such an unstable year. Whilst we have seen progress in some areas, with there being much more awareness towards trans issues, something like this happens and I feel like we take 10 steps back. Honestly I feel like the world is going mad. We live in a world where Donald Trump is the republican nominee. Even rightwing nutjobs are holding a real shot at breaking the UK out of European Union. Utterly mad.



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Stamos

Posts: 4,742 Las cosas se van a poner locas!

#4 [url]

Jun 13 16 4:09 PM

Kevon wrote:
The fact that some nutjob was caught across the country with explosives and firearms with intent to do similar at a pride parade is equally worrying. It's still utterly baffling to me that guns haven't been banned in the most powerful country in the world. This kind of thing is virtually non-existent elsewhere in the world. America needs to wake up. Bigotry will always exist, however, to legally enable one person to do this level of damage is just ridiculous.

I also am disgusted that so many media outlets are going down the "Islamaphobe" route instead of addressing the homophobia behind it. Just another excuse to incite racial hatred.

2016 has been such an unstable year. Whilst we have seen progress in some areas, with there being much more awareness towards trans issues, something like this happens and I feel like we take 10 steps back. Honestly I feel like the world is going mad. We live in a world where Donald Trump is the republican nominee. Even rightwing nutjobs are holding a real shot at breaking the UK out of European Union. Utterly mad.

All of this basically.... 




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MisplacedValidity

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#5 [url]

Jun 13 16 4:31 PM

Kevon wrote:
I also am disgusted that so many media outlets are going down the "Islamaphobe" route instead of addressing the homophobia behind it. Just another excuse to incite racial hatred.
His homophobia was borne out of his religious beliefs, though, wasn't it? Didn't he pledge allegiance to ISIS? Obviously people shouldn't take that to judge an entire group of people, but I understand this being couched in terrorist terms as ultimately it was a terrorist attack from what I know. Or maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.

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Kevon

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#6 [url]

Jun 13 16 5:02 PM

MisplacedValidity wrote:
Kevon wrote:
I also am disgusted that so many media outlets are going down the "Islamaphobe" route instead of addressing the homophobia behind it. Just another excuse to incite racial hatred.
His homophobia was borne out of his religious beliefs, though, wasn't it? Didn't he pledge allegiance to ISIS? Obviously people shouldn't take that to judge an entire group of people, but I understand this being couched in terrorist terms as ultimately it was a terrorist attack from what I know. Or maybe I misunderstood what you were saying.
Yeah, but it's frustrating that many outlets and politicians are focusing soley on that fact with little/no mention of the fact that it was hatred towards the LGBT community. Their agenda is the scaremongering of extremists which will ultimately impact an entire group of non extremists who have to put up with bigotry because of ISIS actions already. This quote sums up how I feel about it:

"This isn’t the time to make this about defending the US state, this is about defending the LGBTQ community. Make no mistake, the state is no ally, and bigots of all political hues still stalk the political landscape. Florida still has no hate crime legislation pertaining to attacks on the grounds of gender identity, and the state’s blood ban on sexually active gay and bisexual men remains a reminder of our difference, and our division. It might be gay blood congealing on Orlando’s streets, but it won’t be gay blood replenishing and revitalising the friends and lovers we have lost. Talk about this on your social media, not about the killer's religion and keeping America safe."



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mcfan

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#7 [url]

Jun 13 16 7:41 PM

I too have read blog entries today mentioning the fact that the media in Europe is focusing more on the terroristic side of the event, rather than the fact that it was aimed at a LGBT crowd.

Personally I didn't watch the news on TV, I just read articles online but I can see it being true.

  
  

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#8 [url]

Jun 13 16 8:12 PM

This whole thing is so unreal. I feel terrible for everyone the Orlando tragedy touched. I read that the victims were held hostage for 3 hours. One mom said her son sent her a text "He's coming. I'm going to die." I literally can't even fathom how scared everyone must have been.

Over in LA, a man was arrested with weapons on his way to our pride, which took place in West Hollywood this weekend. I went on Sunday, and it was more packed than ever. I'm glad he didn't "win" and everyone continued with their normal plans. There were a lot more police and security than usual. I'm not sure how it is elsewhere, but the West Hollywood pride is absolutely massive. Santa Monica Blvd is pretty much taken over. Scary to think what might have happened.

Here is an article about it:
http://www.cnn.com/2016/06/12/us/california-west-hollywood-suspect-aresenal/

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#9 [url]

Jun 13 16 9:40 PM

I've been hearing that there was another guy involved in the club - he either fired shots too or just blocked the exit door or something. But media is covering it up because he got away. I don't know if this is true or not.
I'm also hearing other reports saying some guys have met the shooter on some gay dating app before. Some are saying he was gay with a homophobic father.

Last Edited By: nizarnoor Jun 13 16 10:24 PM. Edited 1 time.

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Kevon

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#10 [url]

Jun 14 16 3:48 AM

^My friend's friend was at the club and they said the same thing, there were two people shooting initially. I wondered if it was security. But hearing you say it as well makes me wonder. I'd hate to think that someone involved got away.



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sainttropez

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#11 [url]

Jun 14 16 8:37 AM

Sad tragedy.

First and foremost it should be about the victims, their families, friends and the lgbt community.

Second, America needs to sort out its gun laws/issues.

Unfortunately the tragedy was carried out by a muslim, which in turn brings into the debate about terrorism/Islam religion.

Gun violence is mainly a US issue, terrorism related to extremist Islam on the other hand is a worldwide issue, hence media outside of US is focusing on that.

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Kevon

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#12 [url]

Jun 14 16 10:44 AM

Interesting that the gunman was a frequent visitor of the club, and many people are coming forward saying that they saw him on various apps. Apparently he recognised by a lot of faces, and people were shocked that he would even have an issue with homosexuality considering how open he was with showing his face picture on these apps.



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BeyondIdolization

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#14 [url]

Jun 15 16 4:50 PM

I've felt so sad about this these last few days.. words can't even describe it.. just anxiety.

Re: the muslim/hate crime debate, imo it's intertwined because in general muslims are against homosexuality. This was probably a case of self-hate as well, but it's hard not to believe it wasn't grounded in his religion.


  

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#15 [url]

Jun 15 16 7:22 PM

BeyondIdolization wrote:
Re: the muslim/hate crime debate, imo it's intertwined because in general muslims are against homosexuality. This was probably a case of self-hate as well, but it's hard not to believe it wasn't grounded in his religion.
Sadly I agree. While the shooter's father said that he didn't believe it was right to harm anyone, he also said it wasn't necessary because homosexuals would be punished in the afterlife anyway. Hateful and horrible to say the least. The shooter (I can't bring myself to write his name) also said he was doing this for ISIS, so how anyone can deny this was at least religion-related is beyond me.

Are there any Muslims on this board who can shed some more light on the religion and how prevalent this way of thinking is?

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robjv1

Posts: 10,760 True in love and wisdom, well off and witty, using god's sleeve to wipe the hell off the city.

#16 [url]

Jun 16 16 2:17 AM

What is so ridiculous is that this guy purchased a gun legally a week ago and passed a background check, despite having been investigated by the FBI for associating with someone that became a suicide bomber. It's a system where we insist via the second amendment that people have the right to purchase firearms without undue resistance and yet we continually sell guns to mentally unfit people because we're unable or unwilling to put basic safety precautions into the law.

Hunting too, I really don't see the legitimacy. I did not grow up with a family that hunted animals and quite frankly I must question those that hunt for sport and not out of necessity. Absent the need for food, it would seem that the thrill is in the act of killing itself and someone that derives joy from that is suspect to me from the start.

I just keep coming back to The Onion headline on this, "there was nothing that could have prevented this, says only country where this regularly occurs"

Last Edited By: robjv1 Jun 16 16 2:22 AM. Edited 3 times.

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houseofMusiC

Posts: 3,345 You & Me (Eternal)

#18 [url]

Jun 19 16 4:08 AM

America needs to restrict selling/owning of weapons. Mass shootings seems to be a norm in the last few years it's alarming. Seriously, how many shootings had happened inside school buildings and other public places?


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Vincent

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#19 [url]

Jun 21 16 10:54 AM

robjv1 wrote:
What is so ridiculous is that this guy purchased a gun legally a week ago and passed a background check, despite having been investigated by the FBI for associating with someone that became a suicide bomber. It's a system where we insist via the second amendment that people have the right to purchase firearms without undue resistance and yet we continually sell guns to mentally unfit people because we're unable or unwilling to put basic safety precautions into the law.


Hunting too, I really don't see the legitimacy. I did not grow up with a family that hunted animals and quite frankly I must question those that hunt for sport and not out of necessity. Absent the need for food, it would seem that the thrill is in the act of killing itself and someone that derives joy from that is suspect to me from the start.


I just keep coming back to The Onion headline on this, "there was nothing that could have prevented this, says only country where this regularly occurs"


Tell me about it. My father owns a gun store selling pistols, rifles and probably the same weapon used in Orlando. It makes me stick to my stomach. He posted on his site Facebook page that an armed citizen could've stopped it. I'm sorry, but I cannot understand people who believe this. Who in their right mind takes a pistol to the club to protect themselves? We shouldn't have to. I agree with you, I don't understand the desire to hunt nor the need to own guns for it. Do people hunt in countries where you can't (easily) buy guns?? They go on fine with their lives don't they??


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Kevon

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#20 [url]

Jun 21 16 10:56 AM

^Isn't that what Donald Trump actually said as well? That if everyone was armed with a gun on their person, someone would have been able to stop the killer before he murdered 49 people. SMH. Yeah, because a nightclub filled with armed, drunk clientelle is the way forward. Thank you for that insight potential future president



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