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mcfan

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#Beautiful

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Dec 22 14 10:28 AM

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The idea is to discuss various topics related to the Queen, dedicating a whole month to each of them. I will be picking the topics (requests/suggestions will be taken in consideration, PM me).

Don't let this flop, don't bicker, be civil and cordial to each others. Bring your best level of intelligence or I will send your ass to the nearest Each One Teach One organisation and have you start from the basics and y'all are gonna be sitting next to Precious in school.  2642xx1.gif

Now let's start! This month's topic is "Loverboy." Why did it flop? What didn't work about it? Do you still listen? etc.

Last Edited By: mcfan . Edited 10 times

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jrsoares

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#1 [url]

Dec 22 14 1:33 PM

I still wonder why she didn't redid her vocals for the final version. She clearly had a cold during the recording of it.

The reason might be she was REALLY in a hurry to deliver it to the label. Back then she respected deadlines though.

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mcfan

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#Beautiful

#2 [url]

Dec 22 14 1:49 PM

jrsoares wrote:
I still wonder why she didn't redid her vocals for the final version. She clearly had a cold during the recording of it.

The reason might be she was REALLY in a hurry to deliver it to the label. Back then she respected deadlines though.
You know, I was listening last night (kind of getting a bit of life from the "Candy" bassline) and I thought this too. The vocal is too mumbly.

I like the song though. It followed her lead single blueprint, but there was a bit of a twist to it imo. It's very sparse and I think with the original sample it would've sounded too much ike "Heartbreaker."

  

  
  

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jrsoares

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#3 [url]

Dec 22 14 2:51 PM

Although it follows her ''first single'' pattern, the lyrics are much raunchier than HB, Fantasy or even Honey. The ''I cum everytime'' line comes to mind. LOL

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robjv1

Posts: 10,760 True in love and wisdom, well off and witty, using god's sleeve to wipe the hell off the city.

#4 [url]

Dec 22 14 3:15 PM

Really fun idea for a topic btw!

Why did it flop? I think primarily because it lacks a clear, discernible melody (especially in the chorus) and is just incredibly busy. There is just a lot going on in the song -- especially in the sample and the multi-layered vocal.  In the wider public, I don't think people could find a place to connect to the song.

I think there was also a predisposition against Mariah at the time that she 'works with too many rappers'. The song received no shortage of hype, but the fact that none of them were A-level artists only furthered the whole 'rent-a-rapper' label.

And yeah I still listen, I actually quite like the song -- it's fun and different for her catalog. It's also pure nostalgia for me -- that era was huge for me as a fan, especially getting into talking to other fans about MC. I can remember listening to clips of the songs and her radio station interviews at work all that summer and being so excited for it. Then the album leaked and the tracks were all in the wrong order, but somehow it made sense lol.


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carlos b fly

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Posts: 24,331 You'll never be ready. Memba I told you!

#5 [url]

Dec 22 14 3:38 PM

What a good idea for a thread, Mario. Great idea.

RE: Loverboy. I think it was ultimately, the weak link after years of flawless uptempo lead singles. From Dreamlover, you had Fantasy, Honey and Heartbreaker and they were all incredible pop/R&B classics with incredible melodies, hooks, samples and vocals. The chorus of Loverboy is just in no way as catchy or memorable. As mentioned, she is also slightly mumbly and cooing her way through the verses as well, making it hard to hear. The rappers as well, were very heavily plastered into it and not in an organic way. I actually like their verses but if people were getting fed of that on her songs, Loverboy was an aggressive reminder of it.

The video as well, didn't help. It is, even for Mariah, very in your face. If people had been complaining about her image of late, this was the nail in the coffin. S!ut dropping, scarves for a bra, waving her arse to camera and the blonde hair that made it look like she was trying to compete with the younger generations Britney and Christina's.

Loverboy isn't a bad song but ultimately, I think it marks the clear beginning of the golden run of 90's perfection ending and Mariah not always getting it right. From this point onwards, you'd see her creatively misfire just as much as she'd get right on the money with a moment of genius. It happens to everyone. you run out 'luck' or whatever you want to call it. The fact it took Mariah well over a decade for that to happen though shows you have talented she is. 

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mcfan

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#Beautiful

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Dec 22 14 4:04 PM

jrsoares wrote:
Although it follows her ''first single'' pattern, the lyrics are much raunchier than HB, Fantasy or even Honey. The ''I cum everytime'' line comes to mind. LOL
Janet teas tbqh.

  

  
  

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Kevon

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#7 [url]

Dec 22 14 4:15 PM

I would love to hear the original version. I think one of the reasons it didn't work was that they had a melody and they tweaked to it to fit another sample. It sounded a bit messy. I still use it but to a non-fan there was just too much going on, and along with the mumbly, unclear vocals I can see why it tanked.



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robjv1

Posts: 10,760 True in love and wisdom, well off and witty, using god's sleeve to wipe the hell off the city.

#8 [url]

Dec 22 14 9:51 PM

I will say, the belted parts are kind of Daydream-esque.


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jrsoares

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Dec 22 14 11:55 PM

BTW, I know the video is tacky as hell, but I've always liked it. It's so colorful and overthetop lol. I remember the MTV chick from Brazil used to roll her eyes everytime when presenting this. Jealous !%%*%! lol

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CoCoLambMC

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#10 [url]

Dec 23 14 4:34 AM

Alright y'all.... lemme just tell you. I still listen to Loverboy often and I have a lot of fun memories from the time it was released. I still love it as a perfect summer song! I do agree that the lyrics were hard to understand and the video was...... interesting The general public just did not like this song. Though, the general public DID like "Through The Rain" and it flopped just as much (if not more so)....


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Kevon

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#11 [url]

Dec 23 14 4:53 AM

TTR was actually a bit of a hit in the UK, I think largely down to her appearing on a lot of shows here, but I think it made it to #8 on the charts which is pretty respectable given how well it performed in the states by comparison.

I think for 'Loverboy' Mariah had gone so far left as a kneejerk reaction to her Sony days that she had almost become a parody of herself. It made her a prime target for the 'Build them up, pull them down' mentality that people have towards stars like her. People were waiting for a reason to rip her to shreds and she kinda handed to them on a silver platter



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carlos b fly

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#12 [url]

Dec 23 14 7:45 AM

Kevon wrote:
TTR was actually a bit of a hit in the UK, I think largely down to her appearing on a lot of shows here, but I think it made it to #8 on the charts which is pretty respectable given how well it performed in the states by comparison.

I think for 'Loverboy' Mariah had gone so far left as a kneejerk reaction to her Sony days that she had almost become a parody of herself.


Yes, it also did pretty well in other places around Europe. As you say, she did hustle hard to make it happen - she was doing such extensive promo for CB over Europe. I agree about the parody comment as well. The Loverboy video could easily have been a MAD TV skit. It was excess sexuality taken too far.






  

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CoCoLambMC

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#14 [url]

Dec 23 14 2:53 PM

Kevon wrote:
TTR was actually a bit of a hit in the UK, I think largely down to her appearing on a lot of shows here, but I think it made it to #8 on the charts which is pretty respectable given how well it performed in the states by comparison.

I think for 'Loverboy' Mariah had gone so far left as a kneejerk reaction to her Sony days that she had almost become a parody of herself. It made her a prime target for the 'Build them up, pull them down' mentality that people have towards stars like her. People were waiting for a reason to rip her to shreds and she kinda handed to them on a silver platter laugh.gif
That's pretty cool! I just remember, casual listeners that I knew just didn't care for Loverboy. Although, in my city it was played on the radio quite often! But only on stations that were not owned by Clear Channel. Those ones refused to play it On the more urban stations, they would have a daily count down of the most requested songs and it was always on there for a good week. I assume those weren't just lambs voting! smiley: laugh But I was comparing it to TTR because a lot of casual listeners told me that they really enjoyed the song, as a first single. 

And yes I wanna hear the original version as well! smiley: grin One can dream that Island will release "Greatest Hits: Vol.2" including it? Hook it up Mimi smiley: laugh


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robjv1

Posts: 10,760 True in love and wisdom, well off and witty, using god's sleeve to wipe the hell off the city.

#16 [url]

Dec 23 14 4:06 PM

Re: Let's have a lil "Monthly FOMM Symposium" mess out!

carlos b fly wrote:
Kevon wrote:
TTR was actually a bit of a hit in the UK, I think largely down to her appearing on a lot of shows here, but I think it made it to #8 on the charts which is pretty respectable given how well it performed in the states by comparison.


I think for 'Loverboy' Mariah had gone so far left as a kneejerk reaction to her Sony days that she had almost become a parody of herself.


Yes, it also did pretty well in other places around Europe. As you say, she did hustle hard to make it happen - she was doing such extensive promo for CB over Europe. I agree about the parody comment as well. The Loverboy video could easily have been a MAD TV skit. It was excess sexuality taken too far.






  


Yeah the video didn't go over well in particular -- I think it also fueled a lot of people who saw her as nothing but a big ditzy, giggly blonde too.

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carlos b fly

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Posts: 24,331 You'll never be ready. Memba I told you!

#17 [url]

Dec 23 14 4:17 PM

robjv1 wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:
Kevon wrote:
TTR was actually a bit of a hit in the UK, I think largely down to her appearing on a lot of shows here, but I think it made it to #8 on the charts which is pretty respectable given how well it performed in the states by comparison.


I think for 'Loverboy' Mariah had gone so far left as a kneejerk reaction to her Sony days that she had almost become a parody of herself.


Yes, it also did pretty well in other places around Europe. As you say, she did hustle hard to make it happen - she was doing such extensive promo for CB over Europe. I agree about the parody comment as well. The Loverboy video could easily have been a MAD TV skit. It was excess sexuality taken too far.






  


Yeah the video didn't go over well in particular -- I think it also fueled a lot of people who saw her as nothing but a big ditzy, giggly blonde too.


Indeed. And while I don't think it was her intention, the change in hair colour for the video made it look like she was trying to compete with the Britney's and Christina ten years her senior. She looked stunning during the launch of Glitter but I think it was one of the time periods in her career where the image really p!ssed off the general public.

  

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#18 [url]

Dec 23 14 4:38 PM

I think the song flopped because it lacked a clear, accessible structure and all the strong hooks Mariah has been famed for. The song sounds almost like one long series of verses. The chorus is whispered and just doesn't have a strong impact when it arrives to contrast with the verses...No real use of dynamics to set up for a satisfying chorus. And then you marry this lack of contrast to production which is essentially just one loop with little in the way of audible signifiers which support the different sections and guide the casual listener along your average 3:30 min pop song format... and well. You can see why it didn't connect with average Joe public...

And then the half naked video which was a little on the "manic" side too...

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#19 [url]

Dec 23 14 4:46 PM

Kevon wrote:
I would love to hear the original version. I think one of the reasons it didn't work was that they had a melody and they tweaked to it to fit another sample. It sounded a bit messy. I still use it but to a non-fan there was just too much going on, and along with the mumbly, unclear vocals I can see why it tanked.


 +1

I would LOVE to hear the original!!
That Firecracker sample is way more obscure and those little obscure finds seem to really bring out Mariah's creativity. The production on the original Loverboy was definitely more pop sounding straight off the bat. She could have put out some dope RnB REMIXES with it.
Such a shame it all went down the way it did and we'll never hear it...

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#20 [url]

Dec 23 14 4:49 PM

IMO the main problem is the vocals. People were already becoming very weary of her whispering on the Heartbreaker verses, but the chorus was at least full-voiced and super catchy. The Loverboy vocals were the last straw- I remember people saying she sounded like a dying cat.

I honestly think the song, as is, with full-voiced verses and chorus, would have done miles better and be remembered fondly.

(The video was just the final nail in the coffin)

PS.... I still love the song and video!!! (/still think All My Life as the first single would have changed everything about the era)

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