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Jan 26 14 12:39 PM

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After hearing the preview clips of the amazing new Babyface/Toni Braxton album, I went back and listened to some of Babyface's and Mariah's stuff---I wish they had more. Never Forget You is such an underrated gem!!!! So smooooooth and melodic! And of all this talk of Mariah's bridges lately--- this song has a nice one!!
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SISQO MC

Posts: 3,292 "He's so deep in my daydreams..."

#1 [url]

Jan 26 14 4:31 PM

Yes!!! As a matter of fact I was listening to it yesterday. One of my favorites off of Music Box. Yes, another great bridge on this song too. I'll never leave you behhhhhiiiiiiiIIIIIIiiiinnnnd

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robjv1

Posts: 10,743 True in love and wisdom, well off and witty, using god's sleeve to wipe the hell off the city.

#3 [url]

Jan 26 14 6:16 PM

Signed. Very unappreciated album cut.

I've heard some people say they think it's about a breakup, but it definitely seems to be about a death to me.


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matty tat tat

Posts: 2,263

Let me speak quietly
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#6 [url]

Jan 27 14 12:04 AM

Never Forget You Appreciation

robjv1 wrote:
Signed. Very unappreciated album cut.


I've heard some people say they think it's about a breakup, but it definitely seems to be about a death to me.


I've always thought so too but if thAts the case I don't like how Mariah uses the word 'baby' - it just seems inappropriate on a song about death.

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robjv1

Posts: 10,743 True in love and wisdom, well off and witty, using god's sleeve to wipe the hell off the city.

#7 [url]

Jan 27 14 1:02 AM

matty tat tat wrote:
robjv1 wrote:
Signed. Very unappreciated album cut.


I've heard some people say they think it's about a breakup, but it definitely seems to be about a death to me.


I've always thought so too but if thAts the case I don't like how Mariah uses the word 'baby' - it just seems inappropriate on a song about death.
Well, maybe it's about the death of a lover?  A fair amount of people call their significant other 'baby'.


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#8 [url]

Jan 27 14 1:19 AM

Signed!!! This song is amazing. The vocals are beautiful and have this piercing sorrowfulness that comes out strong in the song. I also thought this song was about death and losing someone close. I really appreciate the r&b mix of this as well, I feel it fits the vocals way more than the original production. Wonderful song

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robjv1

Posts: 10,743 True in love and wisdom, well off and witty, using god's sleeve to wipe the hell off the city.

#9 [url]

Jan 27 14 8:30 AM

I actually kinda like the 'country'-esque track to this, it's different. Very Babyface. The R&B mix has some nice keyboards, but the beat is like JDs most basic drum loop ever and is pretty obnoxious.


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Nike

Posts: 11,964 We're all just living in the moment of being positive and there's like, people called haters ... [No, no, Cindy] ... and we give them positivity

#10 [url]

Jan 27 14 12:07 PM

This song always remind me of the golden 90s. It was such a early 90s song that fit the mood perfectly whenever I feel like going back in time. It may not be a trendy song or fresh production, but the nostalgia and melody are beautiful. Definitely my top 3 of the album.

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MisplacedValidity

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#11 [url]

Jan 27 14 5:53 PM

Honestly I've never paid too much attention to the production; it seemed typical for Babyface at the time, which isn't a bad thing but also means the song didn't stand out in that way. I need to pay attention, because I've heard the 'country' thing before as well. Anyway for me this track is all about the vocal and melody. I love them both.

And, yeah, more work between Mariah and Babyface would have been nice. What have they done together? Just "NFY," "Melt Away," and "When You Believe," right? Mariah then did great backing vocals for his "Everytime I Close My Eyes."

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#12 [url]

Jan 27 14 6:43 PM

The song is absolutely about losing a loved one - primarily to death but it's obvious she and Babyface left it open-ended so more people could relate to it. It's absolutely an early "One Sweet Day" just like "Just To Hold You Once Again" is an early "My All".

I kind of think the song was written with the intention of being a full single.

I do think the remixes are random and unnecessary, but I do like that they highlight her vocals on the song. Her vocals here really are amazing. The remixes were probably commissioned solely for the purpose of being able to release another maxi-single. $$$$$$. I certainly bought it.

Did anyone ever actually hear this song on the radio? Don't forget it technically was a "Double-A" sided single with "Without You" for Urban Radio, but I have never heard this song anywhere other than my own personal CD/iTunes collections.

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MisplacedValidity

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#13 [url]

Jan 27 14 7:34 PM

STiMeY62483 wrote:
Did anyone ever actually hear this song on the radio? Don't forget it technically was a "Double-A" sided single with "Without You" for Urban Radio, but I have never heard this song anywhere other than my own personal CD/iTunes collections.
I don't think I ever heard it, but it only peaked at #26 on R&B Airplay so it wasn't big at radio.

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#14 [url]

Jan 27 14 9:00 PM

MisplacedValidity wrote:
STiMeY62483 wrote:
Did anyone ever actually hear this song on the radio? Don't forget it technically was a "Double-A" sided single with "Without You" for Urban Radio, but I have never heard this song anywhere other than my own personal CD/iTunes collections.
I don't think I ever heard it, but it only peaked at #26 on R&B Airplay so it wasn't big at radio.


I have no idea how this song was not a huge hit on R&B radio!! Mariah and Babyface were both in their prime!

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MisplacedValidity

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#15 [url]

Jan 27 14 9:04 PM

It is curious, but I'm not sure how much Sony pushed it. It didn't have a video, for instance. Was the remix pushed to radio more? That would have taken away the Babyface feeling/involvement.

I think people also overestimate a bit how much R&B radio has played Mariah.

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MisplacedValidity

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#17 [url]

Jan 28 14 10:00 AM

mcfan wrote:
MisplacedValidity wrote:
I think people also overestimate a bit how much R&B radio has played Mariah.
What do you mean?
  
For one, R&B radio has not been an automatic format for her. I mean, "I'll Be There" didn't even go top 10. "NFY" didn't do great, and neither did the gospel "AYNAF." "Forever" went top 10 at Pop, yet "Underneath The Stars" tanked at R&B radio. "Crybaby" tanked there. Even when she was depending on Urban radio with the E=MC2 singles, nothing even made the top 30. R&B radio is not devoted to Mariah. I've seen people say she should just make R&B music and target that, which is where the overestimation comes in for me; there is no guarantee she would get the R&B play of someone who has stuck to that lane (like Mary J).

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hottiecasanova

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"You think that's sexy? With the Rocket Pop's outside you?"

#18 [url]

Jan 28 14 10:30 AM

MisplacedValidity wrote:
mcfan wrote:
MisplacedValidity wrote:
I think people also overestimate a bit how much R&B radio has played Mariah.
What do you mean?
  
For one, R&B radio has not been an automatic format for her. I mean, "I'll Be There" didn't even go top 10. "NFY" didn't do great, and neither did the gospel "AYNAF." "Forever" went top 10 at Pop, yet "Underneath The Stars" tanked at R&B radio. "Crybaby" tanked there. Even when she was depending on Urban radio with the E=MC2 singles, nothing even made the top 30. R&B radio is not devoted to Mariah. I've seen people say she should just make R&B music and target that, which is where the overestimation comes in for me; there is no guarantee she would get the R&B play of someone who has stuck to that lane (like Mary J).
Well for one she was a mainstay at the format in the 90's racking up many top 10's. Later she added several entries based on West Coast airplay alone (Crybaby, ISB/PI, What Would You Do, Irresistible) So I wouldn't say she was a Beyonce or OFFkeys (who can't do much at the format herself these days), but she wasn't some one-hit-wonder there either. She also had a huge resurgence there with the TEOM singles and then again with TMB which peaked at #3, the rest of the E singles under-performed but then Obsessed came back at #11. It's not like they didn't support her, it's that she/her team basically self-destructed when it came to single selection post FLAB/TMB. We'll see what happens with the new record. Rhythmic has ALWAYS been her main format. Hopefully they are still on her side this go-round.

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MisplacedValidity

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#19 [url]

Jan 28 14 11:02 AM

^ But it takes almost no airplay to chart on R&B. Didn't "Mine Again" chart on R&B because like 2 stations were playing it? You can't really say the format gave her support because a song charted there. "Crybaby" made it to like #69 on R&B Airplay. That isn't good. That song even had a video. And, really, I think the #11 peak for "Obsessed" is kind of disappointing. My point is that she isn't guaranteed a top 10 or even a top 20 at that format, so to cater to it isn't smart in a commercial sense.

Rhythmic is definitely her core format.

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mcfan

Posts: 31,636

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#20 [url]

Jan 28 14 1:37 PM

MisplacedValidity wrote:
mcfan wrote:
MisplacedValidity wrote:
I think people also overestimate a bit how much R&B radio has played Mariah.
What do you mean?
For one, R&B radio has not been an automatic format for her. I mean, "I'll Be There" didn't even go top 10. "NFY" didn't do great, and neither did the gospel "AYNAF." "Forever" went top 10 at Pop, yet "Underneath The Stars" tanked at R&B radio. "Crybaby" tanked there. Even when she was depending on Urban radio with the E=MC2 singles, nothing even made the top 30. R&B radio is not devoted to Mariah. I've seen people say she should just make R&B music and target that, which is where the overestimation comes in for me; there is no guarantee she would get the R&B play of someone who has stuck to that lane (like Mary J).

For one I hardly think songs like 'Underneath the Stars' or 'Never Forget You' were heavily promoted by Sony at Urban radio. The focus was more on their Pop counterparts 'Forever' and 'Without You'.

When you think about it, those songs also came at a time when Mariah was seen as a Pop princess. And despite that, 'Dreamlover' was a #1 hit on the R&B Airplay chart while 'Hero' (her poppiest ballad ever) reached #10. Oh and 'I'll Be There' was actually #8 there (Mariah's arrangement is more Pop than the original imo).  
'Anytime You Need a Friend' was her first underperforming single at Pop radio, it was not going to do amazing at Urban radio. Was the Soul Convention mix sent for airplay? I believe her R&B remixes didn't start getting promoted until 'Fantasy' (which went #1).

When Sony realized the potential of the remixes, Mariah got hits: 'Always Be My Baby' (#3), 'Heartbreaker' (#9), 'Thank God I Found You' (#10) were all top 10 hits thanks to the R&B remixes (the latter 2 were flops at Pop radio in comparison).
'Crybaby' cannot be used as a valid example at all. It was released between all the drama and as Nick said it got to where it got thanks to West Coast support alone, which is considerable.
The Butterfly era was also handled poorly in general by Sony after 'Honey' (#4). 'Breakdown' was #13 on R&B Airplay though and 'My All' was another top 20 hit.

After TEOM, Mariah released poppy singles and I'm not surprised they didn't support them after 'Touch My Body' (#2). It was like Mariah had done a loyalty deal with them (talking about how R&B success was important to her, how her wins in the R&B categories at the Grammys meant more, releasing a format-specific single) only to break it shortly after.
'Bye Bye' was entirely too Pop for the Urban landscape at the time; 'I'll Be Lovin'U Long Time' was a bigger hit at Rhythmic but by then the flop curse was in full force.
'Obsessed' is the only single I think they didn't support enough.

I also believe that Mariah's labels have done a terrible job with Urban AC radio, often not bothering to send her songs there. After 'Fly Like a Bird' they should've started catering to that format more imo. Half of the Memoirs album would've been played by those stations, but they didn't even try.



  

  
  

Last Edited By: mcfan Jan 28 14 1:43 PM. Edited 2 times.

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