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BeyondIdolization

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#21 [url]

Jan 4 09 9:11 PM

ArabianLamb wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
rainbow1199 wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
rainbow1199 wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
Not her best album imo, but a great and very solid one. Whether an album is a great body of work should be judged on its consistency and cohesion. Unfortunately there are ignorant people (some in this very thread) that fail to grasp that concept, and let their own dated view on what music "should" sound like (and particularly, Mariah's music) cloud their judgement. But, really, that is their loss and not something worth contemplating.


What if something is consistently mediocre? image

Well, that's not the case here so we don't have to discuss that. image I can understand the criticisms of the ballads on E=MC2 to an extent, but to completely dismiss the album is just silly. There's some really interesting work here, which everyone seemed to agree on until the album started underperforming.


I don't really see your point there- as far as I'm concerned, there are still plenty of fans praising the album despite it underperforming. The existence of this thread is proof positive. The only thing this era that had a complete opposite reaction following its performance was 'Bye Bye', probably because people view it as the murderer of the success of the record. I became disillusioned with it two weeks after it was released, which most would agree was before it underperformed. And I agree that there's some interesting stuff- but as an album, while cohesive, it's one of her least compelling imo.

There's like three people on this board myself included who still have positive things to say about the album. Most people (several in this thread) mysteriously changed their tune. I respect the ones who said they disliked it from the start, but not the ones who said it was "THE MOST AMAZING ALBUM OF HER CAREER!!!", and now completely dismiss it.
Most people here did that with TEOM also despite its success, peoples minds change, if an album like Butterfly can be liked for over 10 years proves its a timeless classic, but if an album like E=MC2 can be liked for only 3-4 months proves how mediocre it is with zero longevity.



A lot of people here said that they were completely over TEOM when E=MC2 was released, they hadn't listened to it in months etc, meanwhile now you see several people suddely name TEOM one of her best albums. This is only because people glorify the TEOM era. Had E=MC2 been the bestselling album of 2008, you know most fans would stick to their original opinion on the album.

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BeyondIdolization

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In the sands of time

#22 [url]

Jan 4 09 9:16 PM

ArabianLamb wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
ArabianLamb wrote:
rainbow1199 wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
rainbow1199 wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
Not her best album imo, but a great and very solid one. Whether an album is a great body of work should be judged on its consistency and cohesion. Unfortunately there are ignorant people (some in this very thread) that fail to grasp that concept, and let their own dated view on what music "should" sound like (and particularly, Mariah's music) cloud their judgement. But, really, that is their loss and not something worth contemplating.


What if something is consistently mediocre? image

Well, that's not the case here so we don't have to discuss that. image I can understand the criticisms of the ballads on E=MC2 to an extent, but to completely dismiss the album is just silly. There's some really interesting work here, which everyone seemed to agree on until the album started underperforming.


I don't really see your point there- as far as I'm concerned, there are still plenty of fans praising the album despite it underperforming. The existence of this thread is proof positive. The only thing this era that had a complete opposite reaction following its performance was 'Bye Bye', probably because people view it as the murderer of the success of the record. I became disillusioned with it two weeks after it was released, which most would agree was before it underperformed. And I agree that there's some interesting stuff- but as an album, while cohesive, it's one of her least compelling imo.

Yes completely agree, as an album its just...there, nothing amazing, nothing timeless...just okay material, with okay vocals. Mediocre is the best word to describe the album by far.

Contenders for her best albums include Butterfly, Daydream, Debut and TEOM.


LOL Fake. You used to say it was better vocally than TEOM. image

It is better vocally but I just dont like it as an album anymore, comparing the meoldies and songs to TEOM, it fails.


So, if E=MC2's vocals are "okay", yet better than TEOM's, what does that make TEOM's vocals in your opinion? Bad? Terrible? See, this is what I'm talking about. It's never healthy to completely dismiss a body of work. It's the same with people completely dismissing Charmbracelet.; most works have aspects that are good and others that could be better.

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#23 [url]

Jan 4 09 9:17 PM

Maybe so, but if we go by what you're saying Music Box must be the lambs favorite albums since it is her biggest seller while Butterfly did poorly for the time it was released and coming off Daydream, yet most people here rate it as their favorite album.

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#24 [url]

Jan 4 09 9:19 PM

BeyondIdolization wrote:
ArabianLamb wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
ArabianLamb wrote:
rainbow1199 wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
rainbow1199 wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
Not her best album imo, but a great and very solid one. Whether an album is a great body of work should be judged on its consistency and cohesion. Unfortunately there are ignorant people (some in this very thread) that fail to grasp that concept, and let their own dated view on what music "should" sound like (and particularly, Mariah's music) cloud their judgement. But, really, that is their loss and not something worth contemplating.


What if something is consistently mediocre? image

Well, that's not the case here so we don't have to discuss that. image I can understand the criticisms of the ballads on E=MC2 to an extent, but to completely dismiss the album is just silly. There's some really interesting work here, which everyone seemed to agree on until the album started underperforming.


I don't really see your point there- as far as I'm concerned, there are still plenty of fans praising the album despite it underperforming. The existence of this thread is proof positive. The only thing this era that had a complete opposite reaction following its performance was 'Bye Bye', probably because people view it as the murderer of the success of the record. I became disillusioned with it two weeks after it was released, which most would agree was before it underperformed. And I agree that there's some interesting stuff- but as an album, while cohesive, it's one of her least compelling imo.

Yes completely agree, as an album its just...there, nothing amazing, nothing timeless...just okay material, with okay vocals. Mediocre is the best word to describe the album by far.

Contenders for her best albums include Butterfly, Daydream, Debut and TEOM.


LOL Fake. You used to say it was better vocally than TEOM. image

It is better vocally but I just dont like it as an album anymore, comparing the meoldies and songs to TEOM, it fails.


So, if E=MC2's vocals are "okay", yet better than TEOM's, what does that make TEOM's vocals in your opinion? Bad? Terrible? See, this is what I'm talking about. It's never healthy to completely dismiss a body of work. It's the same with people completely dismissing Charmbracelet.; most works have aspects that are good and others that could be better.
TEOMs vocals are good at some points (WBT, FLAB etc), but mostly bad/terrible (YG, MA, STN etc). With TEOM its strong points aren't with the vocals but its melodies and overall cohesiveness. With CB its strong point is def its brilliant lyrics yet its extremely poor vocals and production take it to the bottom of my list.

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rainbow1199

Posts: 12,520 Often imitated, never duplicated.

#25 [url]

Jan 4 09 9:24 PM

BeyondIdolization wrote:
ArabianLamb wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
rainbow1199 wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
rainbow1199 wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
Not her best album imo, but a great and very solid one. Whether an album is a great body of work should be judged on its consistency and cohesion. Unfortunately there are ignorant people (some in this very thread) that fail to grasp that concept, and let their own dated view on what music "should" sound like (and particularly, Mariah's music) cloud their judgement. But, really, that is their loss and not something worth contemplating.


What if something is consistently mediocre? image

Well, that's not the case here so we don't have to discuss that. image I can understand the criticisms of the ballads on E=MC2 to an extent, but to completely dismiss the album is just silly. There's some really interesting work here, which everyone seemed to agree on until the album started underperforming.


I don't really see your point there- as far as I'm concerned, there are still plenty of fans praising the album despite it underperforming. The existence of this thread is proof positive. The only thing this era that had a complete opposite reaction following its performance was 'Bye Bye', probably because people view it as the murderer of the success of the record. I became disillusioned with it two weeks after it was released, which most would agree was before it underperformed. And I agree that there's some interesting stuff- but as an album, while cohesive, it's one of her least compelling imo.

There's like three people on this board myself included who still have positive things to say about the album. Most people (several in this thread) mysteriously changed their tune. I respect the ones who said they disliked it from the start, but not the ones who said it was "THE MOST AMAZING ALBUM OF HER CAREER!!!", and now completely dismiss it.
Most people here did that with TEOM also despite its success, peoples minds change, if an album like Butterfly can be liked for over 10 years proves its a timeless classic, but if an album like E=MC2 can be liked for only 3-4 months proves how mediocre it is with zero longevity.



A lot of people here said that they were completely over TEOM when E=MC2 was released, they hadn't listened to it in months etc, meanwhile now you see several people suddely name TEOM one of her best albums. This is only because people glorify the TEOM era. Had E=MC2 been the bestselling album of 2008, you know most fans would stick to their original opinion on the album.


I don't doubt that if the album was huge like 'TEOM', it would be in better standing with fans. But the album was well received when it was released, and I think many fans either still have a positive view of it or just changed their mind after finding it didn't age well. I would hope Mariah fans aren't so shallow that they would change their opinion of an album because it flopped.

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#26 [url]

Jan 4 09 9:28 PM

I cant speak for most fans but Glitter is one of my favorite albums despite it being her biggest flop in terms of studio albums. While MB is also one of my least favorites despite it being her biggest album.

TEOM got old for me quickly but Im starting to like it now, some songs WBT, DFAU etc I still listen to a lot more than many songs on E=MC2, thats why I rate it higher.

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BeyondIdolization

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#27 [url]

Jan 4 09 9:28 PM

ArabianLamb wrote:
Maybe so, but if we go by what you're saying Music Box must be the lambs favorite albums since it is her biggest seller while Butterfly did poorly for the time it was released and coming off Daydream, yet most people here rate it as their favorite album.

A lot of people do rank MB high, especially the fans who prefer her work up until 1996 (there are quite a few of them here). I just think it's funny how some people here were almost dismissing TEOM when E=MC2 came out, because they were certain it would be another huge era. But when it disappointed, suddenly TEOM is way up there again...

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#28 [url]

Jan 4 09 9:32 PM

Yeah its odd, but for me personally it was never about success, even after E=MC2 "flopped" it was still a good album to me, but its been almost a year since its release and it got old for me. Maybe I'll rediscover it later on like I did with TEOM, heck im starting to enjoy some CB and Rainbow songs too which I never liked. My favorite albums tho have always stayed the same (Bfly, DD, Debut, Glitter).

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heightsgarage

Posts: 6,161 Chillin' at FOMM

#29 [url]

Jan 4 09 9:52 PM

I don't mean to diss any other albums in saying that E is her best album


it simply is the most sophisticated... the production value alone is just too perfect to not be noted. The edginess of the lyrics, the beats, her voice and attitude was never before so confident and compelling.
Like I said before -- its everything that every great Mariah album is missing all in one package.


TEOM, Daydream and BFly are her other best albums imo and they all have one little thing about them that sort of makes them imperfect.

E has Bye Bye that makes it imperfect.
Daydream has When I Saw You
BFly has Whenever You Call
and TEOM has GYN

that being said - I love all those songs and together with Music Box they make Mariah's best 5 albums. THere are no major production issues, vocals are varied and show great range, emotional context, have fun moments, sad moments, sexy moments, sentimental moments, powerful moments and if you think about the greatest Mariah songs EVER -- the bulk of them are from these 5 albums.


E is the album I've been wanting from Mariah since Daydream. She finally made a top to bottom banger and there was never a moment on E where I was like "oh I wish she didn't do this, or she sounds corny doing that"


all I'm saying is -- one day just listen to the album without the prejudgement and sting of it not being a huge hit -- and enjoy it.

its a HUGE album creatively. Theres a lot to appreciate and enjoy.

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BeyondIdolization

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#30 [url]

Jan 4 09 10:16 PM

^ I think that Butterfly is the closest to a perfect album she's gotten. Everything about that album is just on a whole other level from everything she had done before; it truly is Mariah Carey to the second power.

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#32 [url]

Jan 4 09 10:48 PM

I found E=MC2 incredibly boring because there was nothing really mind-blowing on it at all, it just seemed like a bunch of run-of-the-mill Urban radio cuts. Maybe she should have marketed the whole album to the Urban format rather than Pop.

image

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BeyondIdolization

Posts: 24,901

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#33 [url]

Jan 4 09 11:12 PM

heightsgarage wrote:
I just wish Butterfly was less slick -- the presence of Walter is too apparent for me.


I don't think it's that slick; the production even on Walter's tracks was more sparse and grounded in R&B than their previous work. In that case I think E=MC2 is more of a 'slick' record, actually.

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heightsgarage

Posts: 6,161 Chillin' at FOMM

#34 [url]

Jan 4 09 11:20 PM

I WAS JUST THINKING THAT TODAY


she should've just said this is an URBAN FORMAT ALBUM -- send all the singles to urban and let pop pick it up

migrate bside for the record as M promotion in Fall of 07 -- could've gotten a 2 song disc with purchase of the perfume or a discount on the perfume with purchase/download of the single

with a video of migrate and migrate sent to radios -- easy # 1


tmb in february - would've been # 19


followed by either Thanx 4 Nothin or Love Story


and then you have your pick of the litter -- the third single would've gone top 5 if not #1 following the strength of two #1 lead singles --

lovin you long time
cruise control
side effects
i stay in love
i'm that chick


all strong options for a 4th single for fall of 08 --- would've been a dream

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#36 [url]

Jan 5 09 1:42 AM

E=MC2 is a great record, not as good as TEOM, but better than anything else she's done this decade.

I find Butterfly to be highly overrated, save for Close My Eyes it's completely forgettable imo.

Then again, I usually find what most fans like boring and over-praised, like Right To Dream. image

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