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#41 [url]

Aug 9 17 7:17 PM

Gawain of Suffolk wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:
Kevon wrote:


I won't lie though in terms of set up the Lionel tour is absolutely how she should be going from now on if she's not going to have any energy on stage in terms of movement. Just focus on her voice.


Basically, yes. The issue is, I think Mariah needs 'things' around her. Be it dancers or some decent production values as she doesn't always have a powerful or confident stage presence. I still maintain the CB Tour was the absolute perfect approach. Some dancers, some stage production, none of it being too OTT or mega expensive but I think it worked for Mariah, it facilitated her and let her perform.

The one thing Anthony said that struck a chord - she's gone backwards. She has. Her tours have gone back in time, rather than match her legend status.
  

The thing is though he is just being real, Mariah is a singer and in today's World to get people interested you have to be an interesting perform not just vocally. 

Adele just stands there and sings and she sells out arenas worldwide. Mariah doesn't need to move at all -- all she needs is confidence in her body and her voice. She's stiff because she's uncomfortable in her current weight -- she's either gotta get over it or wear more comfortable/flattering clothing.

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#42 [url]

Aug 9 17 7:49 PM

ShayneFly wrote:
Right. You build the show around her. A dip here, a lift there is fine. Maybe one little routine like Honey with a little oomph. Otherwise, as much as it sounds bad, dancers for her are just human props for a true vocalist. She's already probably got so much running through her head, where she needs to be physically and on what beat in every second song isn't her thing and never has been. And she's done just fine with that before. Just let her roam around the stage as she pleases and let her get into the song/performance, not the routine.

The only thing I can think of that she really pulled off well was the Fantasy Remix chair routine.  But that's for past Mariah.  I couldn't picture her doing that now.  smiley: tongue

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#43 [url]

Aug 9 17 7:56 PM

Adventures of Mimi was the best overall tour for her I think. High value production, no cheesy gimmicks like the Rainbow tour and even some of the Charmbracelet tour, good vocals, fun energy, decent setlist. And she seemed into it. Her personality was there.

"The Adventures of Mimi" to "Angels Advocate" was a complete 180 and she never really came back from it.

My biggest complaint is that she could always be way more creative with including much more material then she's given us.

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carlos b fly

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#45 [url]

Aug 10 17 5:45 AM

Gawain of Suffolk wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:
Kevon wrote:


I won't lie though in terms of set up the Lionel tour is absolutely how she should be going from now on if she's not going to have any energy on stage in terms of movement. Just focus on her voice.


Basically, yes. The issue is, I think Mariah needs 'things' around her. Be it dancers or some decent production values as she doesn't always have a powerful or confident stage presence. I still maintain the CB Tour was the absolute perfect approach. Some dancers, some stage production, none of it being too OTT or mega expensive but I think it worked for Mariah, it facilitated her and let her perform.

The one thing Anthony said that struck a chord - she's gone backwards. She has. Her tours have gone back in time, rather than match her legend status.
  

Everything you said was on point! The thing that made me sad about reading this is that I was hoping Anthony would come back to Team Mariah because I love the Show they put together for the Sweet Sweet Fantasy Tour and they could take her next Tour for the New Album to the next level. 


Yeah, I mean if you think about it the CB tour was pretty basic but staged well. I actually really liked it. Even little touches like bringing out the old comfy chair for TTR or just the stairs in the middle of the stage to work for Honey. It added a little bit of scale, broke things up a bit visually and it looked like some money had gone into it. I must admit, I found the SSF Tour a bit boring to watch. 

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carlos b fly

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#46 [url]

Aug 10 17 5:46 AM

BeyondIdolization wrote:
^Are you serious? Her voice was shot on the TAOM tour. Most fans were mortified when they decided to release it on DVD. indifferent.gif

Her voice, yeah, but they are citing other elements that were real pros of the tour. The production values and ideas were actually pretty exciting for a Mariah tour. 

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BeyondIdolization

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#47 [url]

Aug 10 17 5:57 AM

carlos b fly wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
^Are you serious? Her voice was shot on the TAOM tour. Most fans were mortified when they decided to release it on DVD. indifferent.gif

Her voice, yeah, but they are citing other elements that were real pros of the tour. The production values and ideas were actually pretty exciting for a Mariah tour. 


The poster wrote "good vocals" as well. Regardless, how can anyone enjoy a Mariah tour where the vocals are horrible? Aren't we fans because of her amazing voice first and foremost? Not her clothes or what the stage looks looks like. Same reason I couldn't get into the Rainbow tour- terrible vocals.

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Kevon

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#48 [url]

Aug 10 17 6:48 AM

It's a chicken and egg situation. Big touring names = big touring budgets. Mariah is not a big touring act, so a big production would defeat the purpose financially of touring. But she can't really build up her rep as a performer if she does shoddy tours.



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#49 [url]

Aug 10 17 6:56 AM

I don't care what the stans have to say about looking for big budget staging but I'd argue the majority of the people that go to see Mariah want to hear her sing first and foremost and hear songs like Hero and WBT. They don't want to watch a circus act that sounds like crap.

I've been the several concerts in recent times, Ed Sheeran, Coldplay and Mariah being the most notable. I said this here before but Ed Sheeran's staging at a packed out concert of 82,000 was more sparse than Mariah's. The big screens didn't display him, just tragic graphics. Yet it was one of the best concerts I was at, the atmosphere, the performances and the songs he delivered were on point.

The production value of Coldplays show was far more impressive. It was probably the best concert I've been to. But it was down to hearing the songs. The fireworks, the light up wristbands we all got certainly added to the whole thing but if there was none of that, it still would have been a phenomenal show.

Mariah's TSSF tour gets such a bad rap here and I think it's unfair. Sure the staging wasn't remotely interesting but there was enough production value to enhance what should be a show all about her and that's exactly what it was. It was well rehearsed, flowed extremely smoothly, she sounded great and there was a great atmosphere. The music, her voice and her personality carried the show and that's how it should be. Not some expensive staging.

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carlos b fly

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#50 [url]

Aug 10 17 7:09 AM

BeyondIdolization wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
^Are you serious? Her voice was shot on the TAOM tour. Most fans were mortified when they decided to release it on DVD. indifferent.gif

Her voice, yeah, but they are citing other elements that were real pros of the tour. The production values and ideas were actually pretty exciting for a Mariah tour. 


The poster wrote "good vocals" as well. Regardless, how can anyone enjoy a Mariah tour where the vocals are horrible? Aren't we fans because of her amazing voice first and foremost? Not her clothes or what the stage looks looks like. Same reason I couldn't get into the Rainbow tour- terrible vocals.

Well if you want just vocals you'd just put on a CD and stay at home, and save yourself a lot of money in the process. I think their point is was there was lots of elements they felt made the tour good - energy, production levels, setlist, Mariah's stage presence and yes, vocals. I don't agree with the last bit but there were a lot of positive elements on that tour that made it up into a good tour experience. 

To me, the best Mariah tour is a good combo of all the above which is why I think the CB Tour nailed it all really well. 



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carlos b fly

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#51 [url]

Aug 10 17 7:41 AM

mimifan09 wrote:


I've been the several concerts in recent times, Ed Sheeran, Coldplay and Mariah being the most notable. I said this here before but Ed Sheeran's staging at a packed out concert of 82,000 was more sparse than Mariah's. The big screens didn't display him, just tragic graphics. 

You can't mean Ed's last tour - he had a massive screen set up full of multi screen coordinated visual display graphics, with the entire setup moving and repositioning over the duration of the show. It wasn't mind-blowing but it was hardly cheap or simple. 

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#52 [url]

Aug 10 17 8:03 AM

mimifan09 wrote:
I don't care what the stans have to say about looking for big budget staging but I'd argue the majority of the people that go to see Mariah want to hear her sing first and foremost and hear songs like Hero and WBT. They don't want to watch a circus act that sounds like crap.

I've been the several concerts in recent times, Ed Sheeran, Coldplay and Mariah being the most notable. I said this here before but Ed Sheeran's staging at a packed out concert of 82,000 was more sparse than Mariah's. The big screens didn't display him, just tragic graphics. Yet it was one of the best concerts I was at, the atmosphere, the performances and the songs he delivered were on point.

The production value of Coldplays show was far more impressive. It was probably the best concert I've been to. But it was down to hearing the songs. The fireworks, the light up wristbands we all got certainly added to the whole thing but if there was none of that, it still would have been a phenomenal show.

Mariah's TSSF tour gets such a bad rap here and I think it's unfair. Sure the staging wasn't remotely interesting but there was enough production value to enhance what should be a show all about her and that's exactly what it was. It was well rehearsed, flowed extremely smoothly, she sounded great and there was a great atmosphere. The music, her voice and her personality carried the show and that's how it should be. Not some expensive staging.
I agree with every single word. 
Some people are expecting to see Mariah in a 90's Madonna staging which to me would be absolutely ridiculous. 
Besides, Mariah is known as one of the best vocalists ever and that's what most people expect to see, not some circus act. 
Less is more. 





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#53 [url]

Aug 10 17 8:30 AM

^ I saw Ed on the X Tour in Dublin July 2015. He had a number of screens that changed colour and they interspersed images of him singing on stage that were often masked by the colour. You couldn't see him clearly too often. That was it. It was him and his guitar and band. I'll be seeing him next May and I'm sure he has improved his staging on this tour.

My point is simply that impressive staging doesn't make every show. It's not the be all and end all especially when the music and vocals are what is Mariah's unique selling point. She doesn't need to rely on gimmicky things.

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Kevon

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#54 [url]

Aug 10 17 8:55 AM

carlos b fly wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:

Her voice, yeah, but they are citing other elements that were real pros of the tour. The production values and ideas were actually pretty exciting for a Mariah tour. 


The poster wrote "good vocals" as well. Regardless, how can anyone enjoy a Mariah tour where the vocals are horrible? Aren't we fans because of her amazing voice first and foremost? Not her clothes or what the stage looks looks like. Same reason I couldn't get into the Rainbow tour- terrible vocals.

Well if you want just vocals you'd just put on a CD and stay at home, and save yourself a lot of money in the process. 


I feel the opposite about this. To see an amazing talent stand and sing songs that you have grown up listening to and hear the real thing, I'd give my coin to that experience over a flashy production. I'd rather put on a CD and stay home than go to a Britney concert because that is essentially all I'm listening to.



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carlos b fly

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#55 [url]

Aug 10 17 10:18 AM

mimifan09 wrote:
^ I saw Ed on the X Tour in Dublin July 2015. 

Fair enough, I thought you meant his current tour which is a bit of a different affair but I think falls into your desire still of keeping the performer/songs upfront. 

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BeyondIdolization

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#56 [url]

Aug 10 17 10:18 AM

carlos b fly wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:

Her voice, yeah, but they are citing other elements that were real pros of the tour. The production values and ideas were actually pretty exciting for a Mariah tour. 


The poster wrote "good vocals" as well. Regardless, how can anyone enjoy a Mariah tour where the vocals are horrible? Aren't we fans because of her amazing voice first and foremost? Not her clothes or what the stage looks looks like. Same reason I couldn't get into the Rainbow tour- terrible vocals.

Well if you want just vocals you'd just put on a CD and stay at home, and save yourself a lot of money in the process. I think their point is was there was lots of elements they felt made the tour good - energy, production levels, setlist, Mariah's stage presence and yes, vocals. I don't agree with the last bit but there were a lot of positive elements on that tour that made it up into a good tour experience. 

To me, the best Mariah tour is a good combo of all the above which is why I think the CB Tour nailed it all really well. 





By this logic all Adele fans should stay home and listen to the CD. Anyway, for me, I would've been super disappointed if I went to the TAOM tour because I think for most real Mariah fans, it's about the voice. If her voice isn't there it doesn't matter if she grew wings and flew all over the arena. Production is always secondary to the vocals for an artist like Mariah, Adele et al.

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carlos b fly

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#57 [url]

Aug 10 17 10:28 AM

Kevon wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:


The poster wrote "good vocals" as well. Regardless, how can anyone enjoy a Mariah tour where the vocals are horrible? Aren't we fans because of her amazing voice first and foremost? Not her clothes or what the stage looks looks like. Same reason I couldn't get into the Rainbow tour- terrible vocals.

Well if you want just vocals you'd just put on a CD and stay at home, and save yourself a lot of money in the process. 


I feel the opposite about this. To see an amazing talent stand and sing songs that you have grown up listening to and hear the real thing, I'd give my coin to that experience over a flashy production. I'd rather put on a CD and stay home than go to a Britney concert because that is essentially all I'm listening to.

Fair enough but I still think a superstar artist charging huge amounts of money needs to offer a little more bang for your buck and lets all be real here - Mariah is a popstar. A popstar who has always been driven by visual as well. Her campaign visuals, her music videos, her own focus on how she looks.......these have all pushed the image of Mariah and are a part of her artistry. There's a happy medium in this - she doesn't need to be dancing, nor does she need a funhouse style affair like Pink (amazing as that is). I'm on about a middle level production, CB Tour style. Nothing too flash but not looking like the most minimal, cost cutting effort has been put in. 

The tour scene is ultimately very competitive now. This lack of ambition towards it is not helping Mariah be seen as an act you'd invest in. 

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carlos b fly

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#58 [url]

Aug 10 17 10:32 AM

BeyondIdolization wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:
BeyondIdolization wrote:


The poster wrote "good vocals" as well. Regardless, how can anyone enjoy a Mariah tour where the vocals are horrible? Aren't we fans because of her amazing voice first and foremost? Not her clothes or what the stage looks looks like. Same reason I couldn't get into the Rainbow tour- terrible vocals.

Well if you want just vocals you'd just put on a CD and stay at home, and save yourself a lot of money in the process. I think their point is was there was lots of elements they felt made the tour good - energy, production levels, setlist, Mariah's stage presence and yes, vocals. I don't agree with the last bit but there were a lot of positive elements on that tour that made it up into a good tour experience. 

To me, the best Mariah tour is a good combo of all the above which is why I think the CB Tour nailed it all really well. 





By this logic all Adele fans should stay home and listen to the CD. Anyway, for me, I would've been super disappointed if I went to the TAOM tour because I think for most real Mariah fans, it's about the voice. If her voice isn't there it doesn't matter if she grew wings and flew all over the arena. Production is always secondary to the vocals for an artist like Mariah, Adele et al.

I know what you're saying but Adele and Mariah aren't the greatest comparison here. Adele isn't seen as a highly visual artist, famed for being an excessive and glamorous popstar that has for the duration of her career combined this with her vocal talent. But yes, an epic Mariah tour where she sounded like shite wouldn't save the evening. You'd walk out disappointed if she sounded like crap no matter how spectacular the production was. 

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Vincent

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#59 [url]

Aug 10 17 10:45 AM

I think remove any moments with HER doing any actual choreography beyond a dip and a twirl, and Vegas is the best example of what a Mariah tour needs to look like.

Actually, take away her choreography and you've got the Christmas shows. So basically, the Christmas shows but not Christmas-y.


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carlos b fly

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#60 [url]

Aug 10 17 11:01 AM

Vincent wrote:
 Vegas is the best example of what a Mariah tour needs to look like.



Bang on. It's a pity she didn't/couldn't bring the #1 To Infinity production out on the road with her for SSF. Even it it wasn't the exact same setlist. 

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