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Kevon

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#363 [url]

Jun 16 14 11:51 AM

^WTH, either she's really grown as an actress or she's grown as a damn mess Wasn't she initially marketed as the level-headed 'responsible' one?



Wrapped up in a shady tortilla

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mcfan

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#364 [url]

Jun 16 14 11:55 AM

kevo2002 wrote:
^WTH, either she's really grown as an actress or she's grown as a damn mess laugh.gif Wasn't she initially marketed as the level-headed 'responsible' one? laugh.gif
She's really a mess. Always in some sh*t and always instigating.

Like there was no reason for her to air Traci's husband mess without her being present last season. And now some other mess.

Trina and Toni >> Even Traci with her hoodrat messy ass And Tamar is a kii.
 

  
  

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MisplacedValidity

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#365 [url]

Nov 5 14 6:16 PM

Any theories as to why The Heat under performed? Or is there a universally accepted one?

Toni's previous albums sold well and should have built her a solid fan base. "He Wasn't Man Enough" was a solid lead single that sold well, won a Grammy, and actually finished at #10 on Billboard's year-end chart. Album sales in general were at their height at the time, and R&B music was pretty popular as well. Why did the album "only" debut with just under 200k, and why did it "only" sell 2 million copies?

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carlos b fly

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Posts: 22,021 You'll never be ready. Memba I told you!

#366 [url]

Nov 5 14 6:26 PM

MisplacedValidity wrote:
Any theories as to why The Heat under performed? Or is there a universally accepted one?

Toni's previous albums sold well and should have built her a solid fan base. "He Wasn't Man Enough" was a solid lead single that sold well, won a Grammy, and actually finished at #10 on Billboard's year-end chart. Album sales in general were at their height at the time, and R&B music was pretty popular as well. Why did the album "only" debut with just under 200k, and why did it "only" sell 2 million copies?


I find Toni's career fascinating and have spent years following it. When you work in the industry, I think its always interesting to learn about this stuff. Personally -

1) HWME won good reviews but after the massive wait for a new Toni song, many felt it as a good song but not a Toni song.

2) Spanish Guitar killed the campaign and her career as a far inferior attempt to re-catch Unbreak My Heart.

3) She did zero worldwide promo. She did nothing really outside of America despite the lead single being a hit. 

4) The album (bit like point 1) didn't really capture that magical Toni Braxton sound and was chasing a lot of 2000 trends.

5) The label dynamics around her career by this point were a mess. She was on a label and working with people she had effectively sued and won. She should have battered her way out of Arista there and then. There is no way things will really work in that situation, as Toni has even admitted. Watch her VH1 Behind The Music, which Mario shared with me. It is fascinating and very candid.
  

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robjv1

Posts: 10,743 True in love and wisdom, well off and witty, using god's sleeve to wipe the hell off the city.

#367 [url]

Nov 5 14 7:27 PM

Re: Toni Braxton - 'Love, Marriage & Divorce' Due Dec 3 - Lead Single 'Hurt You'

carlos b fly wrote:
MisplacedValidity wrote:
Any theories as to why The Heat under performed? Or is there a universally accepted one?


Toni's previous albums sold well and should have built her a solid fan base. "He Wasn't Man Enough" was a solid lead single that sold well, won a Grammy, and actually finished at #10 on Billboard's year-end chart. Album sales in general were at their height at the time, and R&B music was pretty popular as well. Why did the album "only" debut with just under 200k, and why did it "only" sell 2 million copies?


I find Toni's career fascinating and have spent years following it. When you work in the industry, I think its always interesting to learn about this stuff. Personally -

1) HWME won good reviews but after the massive wait for a new Toni song, many felt it as a good song but not a Toni song.

2) Spanish Guitar killed the campaign and her career as a far inferior attempt to re-catch Unbreak My Heart.

3) She did zero worldwide promo. She did nothing really outside of America despite the lead single being a hit. 

4) The album (bit like point 1) didn't really capture that magical Toni Braxton sound and was chasing a lot of 2000 trends.

5) The label dynamics around her career by this point were a mess. She was on a label and working with people she had effectively sued and won. She should have battered her way out of Arista there and then. There is no way things will really work in that situation, as Toni has even admitted. Watch her VH1 Behind The Music, which Mario shared with me. It is fascinating and very candid.
  


Her first two albums are great, especially her 2nd -- but The Heat is massively underappreciated I think. It lacks the knockout singles of the first two, but I feel like it's also where she expanded her sound and the things she was willing to try compared to the more tried and true, formulaic approach of the first two albums with the big singles and classy filler.

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carlos b fly

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Posts: 22,021 You'll never be ready. Memba I told you!

#368 [url]

Nov 5 14 7:41 PM

robjv1 wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:
MisplacedValidity wrote:
Any theories as to why The Heat under performed? Or is there a universally accepted one?


Toni's previous albums sold well and should have built her a solid fan base. "He Wasn't Man Enough" was a solid lead single that sold well, won a Grammy, and actually finished at #10 on Billboard's year-end chart. Album sales in general were at their height at the time, and R&B music was pretty popular as well. Why did the album "only" debut with just under 200k, and why did it "only" sell 2 million copies?


I find Toni's career fascinating and have spent years following it. When you work in the industry, I think its always interesting to learn about this stuff. Personally -

1) HWME won good reviews but after the massive wait for a new Toni song, many felt it as a good song but not a Toni song.

2) Spanish Guitar killed the campaign and her career as a far inferior attempt to re-catch Unbreak My Heart.

3) She did zero worldwide promo. She did nothing really outside of America despite the lead single being a hit. 

4) The album (bit like point 1) didn't really capture that magical Toni Braxton sound and was chasing a lot of 2000 trends.

5) The label dynamics around her career by this point were a mess. She was on a label and working with people she had effectively sued and won. She should have battered her way out of Arista there and then. There is no way things will really work in that situation, as Toni has even admitted. Watch her VH1 Behind The Music, which Mario shared with me. It is fascinating and very candid.
  


Her first two albums are great, especially her 2nd -- but The Heat is massively underappreciated I think. It lacks the knockout singles of the first two, but I feel like it's also where she expanded her sound and the things she was willing to try compared to the more tried and true, formulaic approach of the first two albums with the big singles and classy filler.


The Heat is certainly not a bad album, no. I don't mind it but sonically its more disposable than her first two simply because she really did perfect her sound with those. You just CANNOT touch Toni and Face together. Its the perfect producer and artist combo. The ultimate midas touch where an artists vocal and vibe meet so perfectly with a producers trademark sound. When you hit that kind of perfection, following up with a good album but one that was very of the times and could have been done by a dozen other females of the 2000 era puts you at a disadvantage.

She had a bit of a USP and undersold it for a more get it anywhere sound.

Ultimately though, she was +%#$@+ after that lawsuit. Big gap after Secrets and a label that must - at best - had been very salty to have lost a lawsuit and paid out losses to her. You can't really win in that situation. They'll always ultimately hate you until the people in power move on and take that issues/grudge with them (which they hadn't, by the time of The Heat).

  

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carlos b fly

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#370 [url]

Nov 5 14 7:52 PM

mcfan wrote:
They should've pushed "Just Be a Man About It" more and then actually release the "Maybe" video. Risqué and all.


A better choice after HWME. Spanish Guitar was a total mistake. It was a very poor mans Unbreak My Heart that flopped and killed the album dead.
  

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BeyondIdolization

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#373 [url]

Nov 5 14 9:46 PM

MisplacedValidity wrote:
Any theories as to why The Heat under performed? Or is there a universally accepted one?

Toni's previous albums sold well and should have built her a solid fan base. "He Wasn't Man Enough" was a solid lead single that sold well, won a Grammy, and actually finished at #10 on Billboard's year-end chart. Album sales in general were at their height at the time, and R&B music was pretty popular as well. Why did the album "only" debut with just under 200k, and why did it "only" sell 2 million copies?


2 million off of only 1 hit single is a hit album in my book. There was no hit to carry it after that, so the fact that it stopped selling was no surprise.

 

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BeyondIdolization

Posts: 24,900

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#374 [url]

Nov 5 14 9:50 PM

carlos b fly wrote:
robjv1 wrote:
carlos b fly wrote:


I find Toni's career fascinating and have spent years following it. When you work in the industry, I think its always interesting to learn about this stuff. Personally -

1) HWME won good reviews but after the massive wait for a new Toni song, many felt it as a good song but not a Toni song.

2) Spanish Guitar killed the campaign and her career as a far inferior attempt to re-catch Unbreak My Heart.

3) She did zero worldwide promo. She did nothing really outside of America despite the lead single being a hit. 

4) The album (bit like point 1) didn't really capture that magical Toni Braxton sound and was chasing a lot of 2000 trends.

5) The label dynamics around her career by this point were a mess. She was on a label and working with people she had effectively sued and won. She should have battered her way out of Arista there and then. There is no way things will really work in that situation, as Toni has even admitted. Watch her VH1 Behind The Music, which Mario shared with me. It is fascinating and very candid.
  


Her first two albums are great, especially her 2nd -- but The Heat is massively underappreciated I think. It lacks the knockout singles of the first two, but I feel like it's also where she expanded her sound and the things she was willing to try compared to the more tried and true, formulaic approach of the first two albums with the big singles and classy filler.


The Heat is certainly not a bad album, no. I don't mind it but sonically its more disposable than her first two simply because she really did perfect her sound with those. 

  



I completely disagree. Her first album is made up of forgettable filler with a few really good singles. Secrets was much better, and then The Heat was an improvement upon that. The Heat's only problem was that it only really had HWME that was commercial, and big diva ballads were out by 2000 anyway.

 

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robjv1

Posts: 10,743 True in love and wisdom, well off and witty, using god's sleeve to wipe the hell off the city.

#375 [url]

Nov 5 14 11:41 PM

Re: Toni Braxton - 'Love, Marriage & Divorce' Due Dec 3 - Lead Single 'Hurt You'

Yeah, I think "The Heat" is the most interesting and varied of her work. The debut has some of my fave Toni songs but leans very early 90s adult contemporary and Secrets is strong but less distinctive once you get beyond the big songs. In fact, i have actually come to dislike Unbreak My Heart, it's an instant skip for me now. Let It Flow and YMMH are still great songs though -- and two of my favorite openings to songs ever. You just know you're going to love YMMH the second those drippy synths start and those chords at the start of LIF are immediately tugging at my heartstrings lol. Glad to see everyone talking up Speaking In Tongues on The Heat -- I'll just play that and the Art of Love on a loop sometimes.

David, did you ever listen to this duet album? I don't remember you ever saying anything about it.

Last Edited By: robjv1 Nov 5 14 11:46 PM. Edited 2 times.

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carlos b fly

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Posts: 22,021 You'll never be ready. Memba I told you!

#380 [url]

Dec 8 14 10:47 AM

Ah, good for her. Would be lovely for her to win. She needs that confidence boost.

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